Upfront with Kamil Ahmad | Guest: Pervez Hoodbhoy

Transcript

Kamil Ahmad: Dr. sb, your educational career is quite interesting. I was looking at your CV. You did BS Mathematics, then did Electrical Engineering, then Solid State Physics and finally PhD in Nuclear Physics. How do you see this transformation from Engineering to Physics?

Pervez Hoodbhoy: It’s a matter of interest. When I went to MIT, I only wanted to do Electrical Engineering because I had an interest in electronics since childhood so I thought I’d do just that at MIT but when I reached there, I realized that the world is way too vast and that Physics, which we generally consider a dry subject, is the key to all secrets of the universe and to understand Physics, you have to study Mathematics so I did degrees in electrical engineering, physics and math. It was fun, though I had to work really hard to do all the degrees simultaneously.

Kamil Ahmad: But we have limitations here imposed by HEC [on doing various degrees simultaneously]?

Pervez Hoodbhoy: No, it’s mainly about fraud. Fact is that unless you complete the course requirements you can’t get the degree. There, people normally don’t do fraud. In Pakistan, you have to impose such limitations.

Kamil Ahmad: There’s something very interesting about your career. People here are crazy about government awards. But you were nominated for Sitara-e-Imtiaz during Musharraf’s rule and you refused; what was the reason? Did you have some personal clash with General Musharraf?

Pervez Hoodbhoy: No there was no clash or unpleasantness. I didn’t consider the government wrong in this case. In my opinion the way these nominations are decided is completely wrong. If someone garlands a donkey, what good is it for? I’m not calling myself a donkey. But the kind of people who’ve received these awards are good for nothing. For example, a person recently got Hilal-e-Pakistan in Math. Give him basic Math sums from MIT’s BSc and he’ll be exposed. So I don’t want to get into such things. That award would have been meaningful if the nominations were decided through a procedure, through a committee of experts who’d look at the body of work, its importance and appreciation in the global community. So I’d have gladly accepted the award if I had been nominated after a thorough procedure. I have accepted various other awards in the past as well. These awards are decided by some bureaucrats. If someone likes you, and there must have been someone who was kind enough to nominate me for this award, but for me it is meaningless.

Kamil Ahmad: So if the current minister for Science and Technology nominates you for an award, the answer will be no?

Pervez Hoodbhoy: That’s obvious.

Kamil Ahmad: Recently, we were on a brink of war with India. Pakistan behaved quite responsibly, especially on nuclear retaliation, they said it wasn’t an option but people think of nuclear bomb as a firecracker. You also wrote a book ‘Confronting the Bomb’ and you’ve always been vocal against the nuclear bombs. Why is it so?

Pervez Hoodbhoy: See, atom bombs are recipe to destruction for both countries. Pakistan showed restraint after Pulwama attack and avoided the kind of warmongering we used to witness in the past. I’m happy with this; it was mature behavior. What India did was completely wrong. They have bombs that can eliminate us, our bombs can eliminate them. Atom bomb, as you said, isn’t a firecracker. A small bomb of just 15 kilotons, containing very little uranium demolished the entire city of Hiroshima, and later Nagasaki. Now India has around 100-150 of such bombs. Same goes with Pakistan. We can eliminate each other completely. What joy does it bring? Why are we playing this game?

Kamil Ahmad: So we should get rid of them?

Pervez Hoodbhoy: Absolutely, and in order to get rid of them, we should completely eliminate the jihadi organisations.

Kamil Ahmad: Any major regrets in life?

Pervez Hoodbhoy: [Recites Ghalib] Thousands of such desires that each was worth dying for. So yes, there were many that were fulfilled.

Kamil Ahmad: Any scientific ones in particular?

Pervez Hoodbhoy: Yes, I wish I had more time to do more Physics, read more, wish I had studied those parts of Math that I can’t study now because it’s a struggle to understand them now then I might have been more successful.

Kamil Ahmad: You’ve lived at three stations; Lahore, Karachi and Islamabad. Which of these is your favorite?

Pervez Hoodbhoy: I like none. Wherever you go, the air is polluted with smoke and dust. I remember the days from Karachi when the air was clean. We used to live near Gandhi Gardens, now called Zoological Gardens. We’d hear the lion’s roar from quite some distance. There were no horns, nothing. Now, every city, including Islamabad, which was once green and clean, is full of roads and people. No Pakistani city is beautiful anymore.

Kamil Ahmad: So is it the love for the country that you’re still here, because you have had plenty of opportunities abroad.

Pervez Hoodbhoy: I burnt my boats a long time ago.

Kamil Ahmad: Was it out of the love for the country or you were just comfortable here?

Pervez Hoodbhoy: It’s both; my family lives here, I grew up here. This is my home; why should I go somewhere else?

Kamil Ahmad: What’s your favorite pastime? Favorite movie or songs?

Pervez Hoodbhoy: If I get the time to play with my cats, I love to play with them. I used to have seven cats, now they aren’t that many. But I spend a lot of time loving them.

Kamil Ahmad: So no movies, no songs?

Pervez Hoodbhoy: I do watch movies; listen to ghazals as well.

Kamil Ahmad: Any particular singer?

Pervez Hoodbhoy: Begum Akhtar, Mehdi Hasan. But Begum Akhtar is class apart. Her melodym the music, the pain in her voice is simply unmatched.

Kamil Ahmad: So Dr. Pervez Hoodbhoy also relates with pain.

Pervez Hoodbhoy: Of course, every human being does. We all are same, no matter where we are.

Kamil Ahmad: I know you’ll dodge this question. Did you ever fall in love?

Pervez Hoodbhoy: Yes.

Kamil Ahmad: What happened to it?

Pervez Hoodbhoy: [Chuckles] Why should I tell you?

Kamil Ahmad: So we should count it among the regrets?

Pervez Hoodbhoy: No, not at all a regret. I believe it is a very important part of life. To love.

Kamil Ahmad: Learning curve?

Pervez Hoodbhoy: Forget the learning curve. If you haven’t loved, you can’t understand the world.

Kamil Ahmad: You’re often accused of receiving funds from Indian embassy and RAW. As they say in Punjabi, where’s our share?

Pervez Hoodbhoy: You didn’t talk about the CIA.

Kamil Ahmad: Oh yes, I forgot CIA and Mossad.

Pervez Hoodbhoy: None was left. The first time I was accused was in 1973, and it was by Dr. Kaneez Yousaf who was our Vice Chancellor at Islamabad University. She said that Hoodbhoy is CIA and Jamaat-e-Islami’s agent because they were of the same view at the time. Then, I was accused of being a Mossad agent and the accusation was leveled by the honorable Shireen Mazari when she and the other 150 teachers wanted to steal Quaid-e-Azam University’s land. And there are many others that I can’t count.

Kamil Ahmad: But did you get the money?

Pervez Hoodbhoy: No, it’s been 40 years, at least a portion of it should have been released. But I’ll get it someday, Insha Allah.